I do not believe God will condemn practicing homosexuals, or people with homosexual inclinations, to hell.
In general I believe this because I don’t think what the Bible talks about is the same thing as a loving monogamous homosexual relationship. Those who surrounded God’s people in the Old Testament tended to employ sex as a part of worship of fertility gods and goddesses, so that type of sex was idolatry. Paul was surrounded by a Grecco/Roman culture, and…considering that the first phrase I learned in my current study of ancient Greek was "Kalos o pais esti" (beautiful is the boy), which is a phrase that is found on hundreds of pots given to Greek boys by their adult lovers, it is safe to say he was surrounded by a very specific type of homosexuality, Pedophilia. What I am saying is that the sexual acts God condemns are not the current sexual acts (or state of being for that matter) of homosexuals.
Let’s look at this is more detail. In every case in which the Bible seems to condemn homosexuality it is never the case. Let us walk through the verses.
- Genesis 19, Sodom. Raping angels is a no no (as is being raped by Angels, see Genesis 6 and my comments on Leviticus), further if one is to follow this story for its morals then one needs to offer their children up to be raped (same with Judges 19).
- Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 both deal with ritual purity, as does most of the book. Ritual purity tends to involve contact between holy and mortal (hence a Levite gets zapped for touching the Arc, and also why early Judaism viewed Genesis 6, the coupling of the "sons of God and the daughters of men" as "the fall" not Genesis 4) and powers of life and death such as semen and menstrual blood. Other examples of abominations include women wearing trousers and the eating of shrimp, buzzards, and "crawling things." What is especially troubling about these verses is Leviticus 20:13, which calls for killing of him who "lies with a male as with a woman."
- Romans 1: 26-27. Let’s look at what Paul was condemning, Bacchanalia or some such sexual-religious ritual. Read in context Paul is talking about worship. These, I presume former, Christians have switched from worshiping God to worshiping in a Pagan temple. They are punished for this in mid-Bacchanal, by having sex with people that they would not normally have sex with. In other words heterosexual ex-Christians go against their sexual orientation while blissed out on drugs, booze, fasting, and pagan ritual and have sex with people of the same sex.
- Corinthians 6:9 and 1st Timothy 1:10. If Paul wanted to refer to homosexuals in these verses he would have referred talked about "Paiderasste" but he didn’t he made up his own word "Arsenokoita," or literally manbed. To figure out what a manbed is it is best to look at 1st Timothy, since the manbed is put into a list with several other types of people, "immoral people" and "kidnapers." So what do "immoral people, manbeds, and kidnapers" have in common? Well, immoral people could perhaps be better-translated "male prostitutes" (the Septuagint uses this Greek word for male prostitutes). So Paul seems to be condemning male prostitutes, johns, and pimps.
Now, I have to say in all honesty I don’t know if Paul or Jesus (who I must mention says nothing about homosexuality) would condemn modern homosexuality. If Jesus or Paul were to be taken to the LGBTQ meeting at the University of Oregon, I have a feeling they may not react extremely well to the surroundings. After all they were both Jews from a very specific time and space, and though Jesus was and is God, he "emptied himself," (Philippians 2:7) and was in fact a Jewish dude in a specific time and place. Frankly, I believe if a pre-resurrection Jesus showed up in church and saw us worshiping him as YHVH he’d take offense (the resurrected Jesus on the other hand, is cool with it).
I must also admit my attitude toward homosexuals is shaped by my experiences as well as by scripture. After the Matthew Shephard murder I was introduced to one of his gay friends, the brother of a councilor at University of Wyoming High School Summer Institute. He was both Gay and a good Lutheran man. When I went to University of Oregon I met a plethora of homosexual people, many of them stereotypically flamboyant, some not. Two of them stick out in my mind. One was a guy in a creative writing class I was in, he was a bit pretentious, but no more an abomination than Leviticus’ "rock badger." The other was a lady about my mother’s age, who I had many a religious studies classes with. She had a loving partner and was a Calvinist, but was alienated from both her family and her church because of her sexual orientation. She believed, and I assume still believes, quite strongly in God. To her in Christ there is "no male or female," means God accepts her too.
All this said, I will admit in humbleness, that I could be wrong. Judah could be right; my understanding of homosexuality could simply be "the modern human view" instead of God’s. After all homosexuals who have sex outside of marriage do have sex outside of marriage. Perhaps, with me the Word of God has landed amongst the thorns of this world. I do not believe so, but it is possible.
Peace,
Chris
(for more information on this subject check out these web sites Religious Tolerance.org and bible.org)
6 comments:
I'll find some common ground here, Chris. I agree that God will not condemn to hell those who practice homosexuality.
It seems to me that condemning to hell is something only God should do, something that he seems to do only if you've completely shut the door on him and rejected God wholeheartedly and permanently. It is certainly not for unrighteous acts alone. While homosexuality may not be a right-living act, from what I gather, we must take into consideration that we all do unrighteous acts. To say homosexuality warrants eternal damnation means we're all doomed to hell. I've personally done some things with pornography in my life that I'm not too proud of, things that would equal -- at very least! -- if not surpass the sinful nature of other sexual sins. I'm sure you're no exception, Chris; we all have fallen short, right?
Where does this leave us, then? In particular, what about the Law, these "troubling" verses in Leviticus condemning people to death for sin? The Law acts as a "what's right and wrong" guideline. Sometimes we look at some particular law in the Law and think, "My God! How terrible! How intolerant! How could God be so horrible?!"
The reality of it is far more Godly. God wasn't a mean god in the OT; Jesus wasn't a nice, happy God in the NT. But rather, the Law of the OT lays down a guideline for right and wrong. Paul confirms this in Romans, where he says, "The Law clearly serves a purpose: If it weren't for the surgical, concise command, 'You shall not covet', I could have dressed up covetousness to look like a virtue, and ruined my life with it."
Unfortunately, if all we had was the Law, we'd be in big trouble. In fact, most of us would have literal, actual death sentences for breaking laws.
That's where the Messiah comes in. That's his role in this play. He comes in and says, "Hey, even though you deserve death, I'm going to die so that you don't have to." (That's the central point of Jesus' coming; you'd be surprised at how few Christians understand this crux!)
Combining the purpose of the Law with the purpose of Messiah, let's gain a better idea of what we should think about homosexuality. What I'll say on the matter of homosexuality, with these nuggets of [hopefully!] Godly wisdom in mind, is that the Law quite plainly says it's one of those things that is wrong, you shouldn't do it, it's not God's way for humanity. Chris, it appears you and I both agree Leviticus claims this is wrong, we only differ when you say Leviticus is merely ritual purity; from what I gather, the Law --including Leviticus-- is a moral guideline defining what's right and wrong.
The final answer then, is that if the Law is a moral guideline, it's apparent a homosexual is guilty of sin, like everybody else.
That doesn't excuse it, it just means you've got some forgiveness when you don't deserve any. That's Grace. I've got grace for the bad things I've done. Homosexual Christians, God bless them, need that grace and forgiveness as much as I do. Better to have grace and a repentant heart, I'd say, than a stretching and bending of the Word to fit your lifestyle.
Heck, if we go the latter route, I could just point out that Scripture says nothing of pornography, thus allowing me to continue on in sin, ignorant of the purpose of the Law and the reason for Messiah.
This is such a touchy subject and its so easy to get it wrong.
My own take on it is that almost all our problems with this subject come from trying to apply the Law to other people rather than to ourselves. I have no idea what it's like to live as a homosexual, but I can look at the Law and see how it tells me to relate to homosexuals. It says, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" -- in Leviticus even!
I think you did a good job of looking at scripture. I don't think the bible is clear at this point.This leaves people free to go in either direction and then force the texts to agree with them. But the heart, the center, remains the grace of God.
I'd also like to post one thing for the conservative religious folks who outright condemn homosexuality without a thought. While you folks, I believe, are right about it being sin, you're wrong to be so quick in judgement and condemnation.
Let me lay this clearly on the table: the reason I don't hate homosexuals is because God prefers love! I prayed about this topic the other night and I felt the Lord telling me consistently that we should love them.
And you know what? That fits with everything we've been taught: of all the Law, of all the things saying what is and is not sin, the most important of these do's and don'ts, according to Jesus, is what? It's to love other people and love God.
And Paul heartily agrees:
Love never gives up.
Love cares more for others than for self.
Love doesn't want what it doesn't have.
Love doesn't strut,
Doesn't have a swelled head,
Doesn't force itself on others,
Isn't always "me first,"
Doesn't fly off the handle,
Doesn't keep score of the sins of others,
Doesn't revel when others grovel,
Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,
Puts up with anything,
Trusts God always,
Always looks for the best,
Never looks back,
But keeps going to the end.
We on the conservative end have been keeping score of the sins of others by instantly condemning homosexuals to hell, even those that believe in Messiah. That's not love.
And for those who do love Messiah, it's a terrible thing to say they deserve hell. It's a hard thing to even call them out on their sin; it would be easier and more convenient to simply let them continue with their lifestyle. But this is where some of the liberal Christians miss the point: no matter how much modern humanity compels us, no matter how harmless it seems, we cannot tolerate sin, especially open, flaunted sin. Paul makes this very clear in Corinthians. Openly saying, "I'm a practicing sinner, and proud of it!" is missing the mark; Jesus didn't pay for your life just so you can continue ruining yourself with sin.
The answer is to love homosexuals the same Messiah loved all us and even to this day gives us forgiveness for our own terrible lifestyles and vices. At the same time, every person who loves Messiah should be striving for a higher level with Him. Less sin, more right-living. Living a life like that allows God to start pouring in the joy and happiness he's so famous for.
Of course we shouldn't have anyone saying, "I'm a practicing sinner, and proud of it!" The question is how does one Christian counsel another with regard to sin.
C.S. Lewis in Surprised by Joy explains his lack of forceful condemnation of the pederasty that went on at his school by saying that he didn't feel qualified to pass judgment on sins that he wasn't personally tempted by. (I don't think he questioned that it was a terrible sin, but he didn't judge it.) Similarly, I could speak to a fellow Christian about the temptation of pornography because it is something I know something about. Not so with homosexuality.
And here's the thing...there is a strong majority report from those Christians who are homosexuals that it is not a sinful thing. These are Christians who have learned a bit about the nature of sin, who understand what transgressing the law of God is about, and they say this isn't it. I'm inclined to accept their judgment on that.
Judah
I agree that often times Christians get so wrapped up in the details that they forget that Christ’s salvation is truly one from death itself. You said it well. Thanks.
Melancthon
You are far more eloquent than I, and better reasoned too. I’ll need to read Surprised by Joy.
In sum I think Dr. John said it best (and I think he says in a lot of ways what we all are saying here, and as Christians we should always be saying). “The center remains the grace of God.”
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