Saturday, August 29, 2009

Two thought experiments

Well, as most of you know the ELCA has voted on a social statement on sexuality that, among other things, lifts Vision and Expectations exclusion of homosexuals in publically accountable monogamous relationships. I was at Churchwide Assembly, where this was voted on, as a visitor for the first couple days. I got a taste of the arguments that CORE and Lutherans Concerned were using.
With all that in mind I have two thought experiments:
1.What if we had been arguing these things in a homo-normative society about the inclusion of heterosexuals in the ministry? Think of all the examples of bad heterosexuals and bad heterosexual relationships in the Bible. I mean Solomon forsook his religion in the name of women. Ruth trades sex for status. Jesus said if you even look at a woman with lust in your heart you’ve committed adultery.
And you say you want these people as pastors? Not only that you want these people to… marry? To reproduce?

2. What would the argument look like if, in two years time, we try to re-bottle (re-closet?) this, that is undo the ministry recommendations? Would we use the same arguments? Would CORE talk more about personal experience and Lutherans Concerned talk more about the Bible? What would shift? Was this a Pandora’s box moment or an experiment?
I know a lot of folk seem to think progress is inevitable, that once something is normalized it is normalized permanently. I think people who think this haven’t read history. I think the progress of 2009 could be wiped out in 2011. Actions cause re-actions, etc.
At any rate, think about these things, and if something interesting comes up post!


Anonymous said...

When your preach at the pulpit it is best to preach the scripture, not personal opinions or beliefs or how you interpret (warp) the bible and what is written.

Judah Himango said...

Chris, can I tell you what I really think?

Biblical ethic is being tossed out of the window in favor of extreme compromise with sin. All in the name of progress.

God's Word, the Scriptures that Lutheran pastors preach from the pulpit, God's very inspired words spoken to us tell us homosexuality is sin. All the pandering to 'progressives' won't change this. All the philosophical arguments conjured up in support of homosexuality, all the skimming and buttering over Scriptures in Leviticus, Romans, Timothy, Revelations -- none of these human arguments can stand up to God's clear statements in Scripture: homosexuality is not God's plan for love or reproduction. It's not politically correct to speak this: God considers homosexuality an abomination and a sin.

Folks suffering from homosexual temptations shouldn't be shunned or persecuted, but should come to repentance before the Lord and get help for deliverance from sexual immorality.

Just War Theory Man said...

Hi Chris,

It strikes me that one cannot really imagine a homo-normative society. Where would the children come from? But the other part of the argument relies I think on a false comparison. It may be trite, but I think it true that what is condemned in the Bible is the homosexual act, not the person as a person. I think that is true of any act the Bible portrays as sinful. Whereas heterosexual acts are portrayed as sinful due to circumstances, but never the act itself. So instead of saying "these horrible sinners are heterosexuals," I could just as easily say "Jews," or "Gentiles," or "males," or "females," etc.